this is a skank shift ([info]crescimento) wrote,
@ 2006-04-17 21:35:00
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Current music:Queen-We Will Rock You

Screw you Europe.
I feel like bitching more. Today's "screw you and the horse you rode in on" is for the folks who like to tear down and ridicule American culture & the US government by pointing to some European country as a beacon of morality. Are you serious? I don't mind criticism of this country, the culture, or the government, obviously. But get off your high horse in thinking any other country has the moral or otherwise high ground. They all have problems, big fucking problems. Racism, sexism, nationalistic fervor, blindingly self-interested foreign policy, crimes against humanity, fair employment practices, government corruption, balancing civil liberties with security?

They have to tackle all the same shit and they certainly don't always do it in ways that would meet my approval, and I doubt yours. Is the occupation of Iraq and the death of so many innocent people a gross tragedy? Yes. Is it historically unique? No. Has every country in Europe perpetrated similar crimes either against their own people or another country? Yes. Does this mean I think Iraq is therefore morally justifiable? No. Does it mean I think Europe is filled with just as many rat bastard self-interested politicians as this country? Yes. And I would probably argue that any anti-war stance taken by any of those countries has less to do with humanitarian concerns and more to do with what is to be gained by supporting or opposing an action. Or should I say publicly opposing while secretly supporting? I'm looking at you Germany. I'm convinced that hypocrisy is rife throughout global politics, regardless of continent.

What does this mean for you? Should you feel free to tear down elements of America in my presence? Absofuckinglutely, I'm right there with you and we can have brilliant conversations I'm sure. Should you feel free to worship some other country's culture in my presence subsequent to our other conversation? Sure, but just know I'm going to do whatever is in my bank-of-knowledge power to rip apart any country you prop up. All these governments are worthy of being labeled sonsofbitches as far as I'm concerned. If there is one thing in my course of study of history that I see over & over, it's that no one has clean hands. Seriously, name me a country, and if I can't name something fucked up that they have done or are doing or is part of their culture, then give me 30 minutes worth of internet research and I fill find some shit. It's not tough.

If you hate this country & really like some other country, great. Just please be consistent in your condemnations & pull your head out of the goddamn sand, no where is perfect.


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[info]rockthemike
2006-04-18 05:17 am UTC (link)
While we may all be on the same plane of fucked, certain countries in the EU certainly got some shit right that we can't (religion in politics, for instance). So I think it's alright to give them the respect they deserve for that.

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[info]crescimento
2006-04-18 05:25 am UTC (link)
Certainly, I think pointing to examples of where one would like this country to strive toward is a good idea, one worth exploring. I was referring more to that tone that gets taken by some when there is something redeeming about said country, they start climbing on some tower as if the whole damn package is great and everything here is shit.

Like thinking a girl with a nice body and a shitty personality is worth sticking around with, does that make more sense?

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[info]naked_doug
2006-04-18 06:27 am UTC (link)
can you put her on mute?

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[info]naked_doug
2006-04-18 06:28 am UTC (link)
wait that's not the point, huh?

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[info]tyrven
2006-04-19 02:59 am UTC (link)
Duct tape works well. As does reminding them that you're not paying them buying their dinners so they can bore you.

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[info]tyrven
2006-04-18 08:32 pm UTC (link)
Some countries in the EU also have TREMENDOUS issues with separation of Church and State, though. Like Poland, Ireland, Italy and to an extent Spain.

Conversely, many states have demonstrated wonderful examples of government in particular areas. For instance, voter turn-out, involvement and knowledge in New Hampshire.

Of course, as we've become so federalist it's hard to recognize individual state identities (since they've given up so many state rights). The same thing is starting to happen in Europe, though, with the EU. And let's not even get into the rapant corruption of that organization.

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[info]morenamuse
2006-04-18 12:26 pm UTC (link)
word.

we're such dreamy idealists, american-"politically-minded"-youth, I mean. it's the same sort of curtain ideas about the states that french people have-- only they think american culture/politics has got EVERYthing wrong.
there's good stuff in every culture, and plenty of problems there too. france is great about not mixing "religion and politics" except when it passes laws that forbid wearing what you want to (read:veil) to school while the kids sporting crosses don't get hasseled with.
the only perfect country is hypothetical. because no people could exist there.

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[info]crescimento
2006-04-20 03:28 am UTC (link)
your last 2 lines really should replace two thirds of my rant. it hits it in the nose.

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[info]kenatent
2006-04-18 05:11 pm UTC (link)
Yes, Europe and KXPX are both overrated.

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[info]tyrven
2006-04-18 08:23 pm UTC (link)
Funny. I had made a note to myself to write a rant about this exact topic for my journal today (as a result of several conversations I had about this over the last week) but then I came across this entry which pretty much says it all.

The whole Russia/Germany/France opposition of the war particularly made me laugh. It's pretty public now that those three countries had other arrangements with Iraq for cheap oil and some of them also had weapons contracts with them so it was really just a matter of alternate interests. Of course, let's not go into the fact that many of the liberals who put those countries up on a pedestal for their "moral backbone" also supported the war initially (as did a lot of the liberal left) since it had humanitarian benefits.

And let's not get into the recent backlash of conservatives in Europe against socially liberal legislation such as gay marriage laws. And let's not talk about how in Italy the media is owned by ONE PERSON (who used to be the president and is still an influential political figure). And let's CERTAINLY not talk about racism; the U.S. is sadly well ahead of the curve when it comes to racial equality, and that's not saying much.

What also annoys me, and is somewhat related, is this egocentric but ultimately ignorant view that people in Seattle have that the "red/blue" divide is mapped along north/south boundaries - even despite the results of our last gubernatorial election. Or, for that matter, the idea that the "left" (and by the "left", I mean the American Left: i.e., Democrats) are inherently more intelligent, moral and better than Republicans (which consequently translates to "they're all stupid in the south") ignoring how comparable the actual foreign policies are between our two major parties (let's talk about Haiti, for instance).

For how much Liberals like to chastize the right for glorifying public figures like Rush Limbaugh (who most Republicans I know actually detest), they've certainly demonstrated an equal level of irrational zealotry with their standing applauses to the likes of equally-biased figures like Michael Moore.

/RANT.

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[info]crescimento
2006-04-20 03:34 am UTC (link)
well shit, your last two paragraphs cover a post & the points ive been wanting to tackle as an outcome of many draining conversations at work.

i still might have to take a run at it, because the over-simplification of politics i hear coming out of so many people really boils my blood, and ive been recently feeling like doing nothing but getting on an e-soapbox.

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[info]fritz_da_kat
2006-04-20 07:12 am UTC (link)
As long as there are Rush Limbaugh's (and the total nut cases who speak on AM radio) on one side, somebody like Michael Moore on the other side is quite essential. You cannot win with reason alone, you need extremes, innuendos and manipulation.

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[info]tyrven
2006-04-20 07:59 am UTC (link)
I agree with that. What irks me is the self-righteous arrogance of calling conservatives ignorant tools when those people get most of their information from prescription belief sets and Michal Moore "documentaries".

But then I guess that's part of the game, right? Being informed may not popular but believing you're informed is. Which may subsequently be said about having a choice or any real authority over ones life.

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[info]fritz_da_kat
2006-04-20 10:39 pm UTC (link)
There's a lot of bad and biased literature on both sides. I remember it was a revelatory moment whan I first started to realize that "my side" used the same methods as "their" side.

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